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Caesar Milan (56)

Sian 
Quote | 9 years ago
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Have copied this from another forum... You all know what i think of Caesar Milan. Now read this!

"I dont have the time/inclination to add what I think but thought I should post the APDT view of caesar milan - he is coming to the UK and I know quite a few people are going....

Dear Member

We are aware that some of you are concerned about our apparent inaction over the forthcoming tour by Cesar Millan.

The Committee believe that the methods employed and publicised by Cesar Milan should be exposed for what they are. However, we believe that an emotional harangue would be pointless and could generate even more publicity for this man. He is well versed in working the media and has the support of skilled PR advisors who are capable portraying our stance as a form of sour grapes.

The man is, in our view, well prepared for the criticism that will come his way and even though he says, in his latest book, that he is not a trainer, the dog owning public will still see him as such. They will also be swayed by television programmes that seem to offer instant solutions to problems that require much greater time and effort to sort out under the guidance of a ¡®positive¡¯ instructor. If he can sort out a dog in minutes, why should they listen to us when we might take a few days?

We were contacted a little while ago about supporting the RSPCA with a joint press release ¨C including KC, Blue Cross, APBC etc ¨C and we decided that this provided the best way to inform people of our concerns regarding methods being shown on the television. The majority of the organisations supporting the statement are well known to members of the public, and we felt that a joint statement with welfare organisations would be more likely to be heeded than by training organisations alone.

The press release will be issued today ¨C in the UK and other countries ¨C and will hopefully generate discussion regarding methods. Please be ready to explain to your clients why the apparent ¡®quick fixes¡¯ often portrayed on TV do not work.

A website www.dogwelfarecampaign.org has been set up answering questions about dominance, dominance and status reduction programmes, punishment and finding a trainer. You will see the press release on the front page of the site. The site will have links to each of the organisations who were involved in the press release. We commend this web site to you and recommend that you publicise it at every opportunity.

My apologies that we were not able to tell you about this press release ahead of time but we ¨C and the other organisations involved ¨C were asked for total confidentiality and to limit discussion to committee.

Kind regards

Val

Val Harvey APDT Chairman
PRESS RELEASE

15 December 2009 Embargo: 00:01, 16 December 2009

Problems with aversive dog training techniques
UK animal welfare, behaviour, training and veterinary organisations1 are warning of the possible dangers of using techniques for training dogs that can cause pain and fear, such as some of those seen used by Cesar Millan, who has announced a UK tour next year.

The organisations have joined forces to voice their serious concerns about techniques which pose welfare problems for dogs and significant risk to owners who may copy them. These concerns are shared, and the statement supported, by similar organisations around the world2 and in continental Europe3.

Aversive training techniques, which have been seen to be used by Cesar Millan, are based on the principle of applying an unpleasant stimulus to inhibit behaviour. This kind of training technique can include the use of prong collars, electric shock collars, restricting dogs¡ä air supply using nooses/leads or pinning them to the ground, which can cause pain and distress. The use of such techniques may compromise the welfare of dogs and may worsen the behavioural problems they aim to address, potentially placing owners at considerable risk. A number of scientific studies have found an association between the use of aversive training techniques and the occurrence of undesired behaviours in dogs.

The organisations believe that the use of such training techniques is not only unacceptable from a welfare perspective, but that this type of approach is not necessary for the modification of dog behaviour. Dog trainers all over the UK use reward-based methods to train dogs very effectively. Where dogs have behaviours which owners find unacceptable, such as aggression or destruction, qualified behaviourists achieve long term changes in behaviour through the use of established and validated techniques of behaviour modification without subjecting dogs to training techniques which may cause pain or distress.

We urge dog owners to carefully consider the help they choose to train their dogs or tackle behavioural problems. Anyone can call themselves a behaviour expert, but we believe that only those with a combination of appropriate qualifications, up to date knowledge as well as skills and experience should be treating dogs, and should only do so in a way which does not put the welfare of the dogs at risk.

Further information on:

the misconceptions which underlie the use of aversive training techniques
the development of behaviour in dogs
the problems associated with the use of aversive training techniques
finding a suitable trainer or behaviourist
can be found at: www.dogwelfarecampaign.org"

Quote | 9 years ago
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I just let my dog train me these days. She is quite kind about it.

Quote | 9 years ago
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I love Cesar Millan! (not Caesar Milan !) he does so much work for shelters, banning puppy mills etc. I think he is a good role model and I don´t believe that his methods are cruel at all..and I´m going to watch his tour yayy

Sian 
Quote | 9 years ago
edited by

I love Cesar Millan! (not Caesar Milan !) he does so much work for shelters, banning puppy mills etc. I think he is a good role model and I don´t believe that his methods are cruel at all..and I´m going to watch his tour yayy


Sorry spellin error.

He even says in his book that he is not a dog trainer. People just think he´s a mirical worker because of the editting done on the T.V programme.

I don´t see anything role model-like from him. He´s a total scam!

Quote | 9 years ago
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sorry but do not agree with his training methods.i think the things he does could be quite dangerous. i use to think he was good but not any more.

Sian 
Quote | 9 years ago
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sorry but do not agree with his training methods.i think the things he does could be quite dangerous. i use to think he was good but not any more.


So did i. I watched his programme a couple times and thought it was too good to be true! I didn´t agree with many of his methods because he pays attention to the bad behaviors and doesn´t reward the good. And as many of you know, i only use reward, reward, reward!

I do not like him (as a training- i have no idea what he´s like as a person) one bit

Quote | 9 years ago
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Well even if you dont agree with his training, surely you see some good with his foundation? Him and his wife create and deliver community humane education programs and promote animal welfare by supporting the rescue, rehabilitation, and rehoming of abused and abandoned dogs. This is what I mean by him being a role model, because he´s saving a lot of dogs!

But it´s just my view and perhaps I maybe have a small obsession with the man haha x

Sian 
Quote | 9 years ago
edited by

Well even if you dont agree with his training, surely you see some good with his foundation? Him and his wife create and deliver community humane education programs and promote animal welfare by supporting the rescue, rehabilitation, and rehoming of abused and abandoned dogs. This is what I mean by him being a role model, because he´s saving a lot of dogs!

But it´s just my view and perhaps I maybe have a small obsession with the man haha x


You don´t get it. Not everything you red is facts. It may say he does this and that, when really he just shows his fase to 1. get money 2. show his face so that he gets publicity. There are many many people who do so much more than him, yet because he´s this ´amazing trainer´ (NOT) he gets all the good words!

Quote | 9 years ago
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i was a bit confused from your first post but i think i understand now.
i did used to like him a few years back but i´m a bit warry.. a new dog trainer on tv actually has a point i will post a video below.
http://www.youtube.com/user/zakgeorge21#p/u/2/fK9DjpRVARs fast forward to 3:00mins. and you will hear.. some of i disagree with but.. i think he really has a good point about owning a dog.
as much as i am not a fan of dog trainers, but he´s not the kind of person to help situations, he just goes around and teaches dogs cool tricks..
to the subject, you are right and now a days i actually have a hard time believing things that are said over the tv.

Quote | 9 years ago
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You don´t get it. Not everything you red is facts. It may say he does this and that, when really he just shows his fase to 1. get money 2. show his face so that he gets publicity. There are many many people who do so much more than him, yet because he´s this ´amazing trainer´ (NOT) he gets all the good words!


wow ok, I do understand what you are saying and I´m only saying my opinion! Besides, why shouldn´t I believe it about his charity work when the shelters actually back him up? I wasn´t trying to get into an argument or change your view on it, I was just saying what I thought (and still think )!

Ciara 
Quote | 9 years ago
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I agree with JessicaLeigh on his work(Helping animals) but not his training methods.
I get free newsletters from his site and read about all the things he does.
I have no doubt in my mind hes a good trainer and really makes an effort to help dogs.(Just my views)

Quote | 9 years ago
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http://www.youtube.com/user/zakgeorge21#p/u/2/fK9DjpRVARs fast forward to 3:00mins. and you will hear.. some of i disagree with but.. i think he really has a good point about owning a dog.


he sounds quite good, i agree with that point though- you have to have authority over your dogs, but respect is a two-way thing. (:

Quote | 9 years ago
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[quote]http://www.youtube.com/user/zakgeorge21#p/u/2/fK9DjpRVARs fast forward to 3:00mins. and you will hear.. some of i disagree with but.. i think he really has a good point about owning a dog.


he sounds quite good, i agree with that point though- you have to have authority over your dogs, but respect is a two-way thing. (:[/quote]

thanks Jessica.. he has a point about dogs not being wolves.. they aren´t.. sure they are decendants but really, the only dog that acutally has wolf in it, is one of those wolf dog hybrids.. then that´s where i would consider it a pack thing asserting dominance, although sled teams use the method of dominance because they aren´t pets and need to be taught who´s in charge.

Quote | 9 years ago
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i love cesar milan. i totally believe in his methods. but i do think that some of his methods cannot be done by the normal dog owner. i cannot see how people believe he is cruel when he shows so much love to his dogs, like daddy. and he set up a fantastic rehabilitation centre and helps people. i can´t see how people can say his methods don´t work and its just a scam. why is he so popular then? he has changed people´s lives. you can´t just dismiss his success and say he is just doing it for money. he was doing it in mexico when he was in the grooming buisness and he was really poor. why should we critisize his success? what if we had that opportunity to give our family a better life and helps dogs? i know i would do it. i think it is unfair that people are so horrible about him, he was an illegal immagrent and i think we should be pleased for him, that he has done so well. if you don´t agree with his methods, then that is fine. but i don´t think you should judge his intentions and say he doesn´t care. he loves his dogs and does what he does to help other dogs all over America. i think what some people say if very hurtful and childish. just because he doesn´t use your methods doesn´t mean he is wrong.

Ciara 
Quote | 9 years ago
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I agree with Woofwoof, I don´t use his training methods because I find my ways easy and good for Snowie, but he is such a nice person and I can say with full honesty when I see his shows on Tv I have to watch them.

Quote | 9 years ago
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thank you snowii. i do not expect people to agree with me. but i don´t see why cesar should get insulted and persecuted just because some people don´t agree with his methods. to say that everything you read about him is a lie is very silly. i think he should be given the benfit of the doubt before he is judged. i think saying he is just doing it for the money is not very nice. he is trying to send out his message and the media is the best way to do it! the truth is that the people who say he is a fraud and a liar and a money grabber know just as little about him as other people. they are just making assumptions. why can´t they just say they disagree and move on with their way. there is no need to get personal and it must be horrid for his wife and children when they hear what things are being said. yes, i do not know what he is really like, i have only seen him on tv. but i haven´t seen any evidence of him being insensitive and a fraud. i have seen him rescue dogs from puppy mills, help out rescue centres and rehabilitate dogs, as have millions of other people. so why do we have to be all negative? can´t we just accept that he is doing well and be pleased for him and his family. i think it is wrong to assume all these things without concrete evidence. we are also so paranoid that there is a conspiracy in everything that seems good. some people say he seems to good to be true so he must be a fraud - that makes no sense at all!!!
i am not saying that you all should use his methods and you must worship him! no way, that would be so wrong. everyone should to what is best by their dogs. if you dogs respond to the ´reward reward reward´ system then use that! my dogs respond very well to cesar´s methods. they get exercise, dicipline then affection. and they have rules boundaries and limitations. they are extremeley happy, so obviously i will carry on using those methods.

I don´t use his training methods because I find my ways easy and good for Snowie,


that is my point exactly snowii. do what is best for your dog, and worry about people who say it is wrong. if it works for you then that is the best way. whoever tells you it is wrong clearly has more success with another method, so good for them, but they shouldn´t try and change your views and insult they way you train.

i would never say that the ´reward reward reward´ system is wrong. clearly it isn´t. it works for millions of dogs and owners. but i don´t use it. and i would never say anything awful about the trainers that use that method.

back to cesar - how can anyone say he is cruel and doesn´t give affection to dogs? when he is helping people he is trying to solve the PROBLEMS with the dogs. he doesn´t concetrate on what they do well because they don´t need correcting. the owners will give the affection, he teaches them when to give it. he gives dogs affection in different ways to other people. affection isn´t always hugs and kisses. some dogs have never been taken on a nice long walk and they are bouncing off the walls. cesar takes them on a lovely long walk or roller blade session and they love it!! isn´t that affection? walking your dog is a great way to give affection and to bond with you dog.
some dogs have been petrified all their life and cesar helps them to relax and let go of their fear. imagine how lovely that must feel to a tense, scared dog! isn´t that affection? he does give his dogs hugs, we see him give daddy affection all the time.

on his 100th episode he had a big party and loads of people showed up, so clearly people love him .his soul mate, daddy, truly shows how much cesar cares about his pack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RP4hu1HymU&feature=fvw

Quote | 9 years ago
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ooo that post is very long. sorry people. i rambled a bit, should have condensed it.

Sian 
Quote | 9 years ago
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i love cesar milan. i totally believe in his methods. but i do think that some of his methods cannot be done by the normal dog owner. i cannot see how people believe he is cruel when he shows so much love to his dogs, like daddy. and he set up a fantastic rehabilitation centre and helps people. i can´t see how people can say his methods don´t work and its just a scam. why is he so popular then? he has changed people´s lives. you can´t just dismiss his success and say he is just doing it for money. he was doing it in mexico when he was in the grooming buisness and he was really poor. why should we critisize his success? what if we had that opportunity to give our family a better life and helps dogs? i know i would do it. i think it is unfair that people are so horrible about him, he was an illegal immagrent and i think we should be pleased for him, that he has done so well. if you don´t agree with his methods, then that is fine. but i don´t think you should judge his intentions and say he doesn´t care. he loves his dogs and does what he does to help other dogs all over America. i think what some people say if very hurtful and childish. just because he doesn´t use your methods doesn´t mean he is wrong.


Escuse me, are you calling me childish?!! How very rude!

You aren´t listening! He isn´t a miricale worker, he hasn´t brought ´great success´ to homes. His tv programme shows that he walks into a house and instantly knows what to do, and it shows it ´working´. This actually takes longer than his show claims! Some of his methods are cruel and i simply do not like him because of his training.

With his ´intention´ malarky you are going on about. Because he is a ´celebrity´ now he gets publicity and everyone knows that the media explode things to make things loads better or loads worse! Otherwise the paper wouldn´t sell! I´m not saying he has never helped a dog in his life and hasn´t done charity work etc, nor am i saying he is a bad person, but i am saying he isn´t all he is cut out to be! And his training... In my oppinion is absolutely poo!

Sian 
Quote | 9 years ago
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thank you snowii. i do not expect people to agree with me. but i don´t see why cesar should get insulted and persecuted just because some people don´t agree with his methods. to say that everything you read about him is a lie is very silly. i think he should be given the benfit of the doubt before he is judged. i think saying he is just doing it for the money is not very nice. he is trying to send out his message and the media is the best way to do it! .


I´m sorry, but you are being very biased and it is actually turning out to be very, very rude. You have insulted me and everyone who thinks the same as me. Now i want your opinions, yes, but i do not want to feel that if i post my opinion on something that i will get insulted.

The media is very good and changing the perspective and very good at changing peoples views on things.
why can´t they just say they disagree and move on with their way. there is no need to get personal and it must be horrid for his wife and children when they hear what things are being said.

Urmm you are making him sound like he´s a fallen angel!

How can you even say that?
why can´t they just say they disagree and move on with their way
If i just said ´I disagree with his methods and don´t think he is a good trainer and don´t think he has done everything the press as claimed he has done´, you would ask me why. I have decided i want to post this because i am a single person with free will and the choice to decide what i do or not do.

Cesar Milan isn´t amazing. If so everyone would be following his training!

The best training method is reward, reward, reward!

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As far as I understood from reading his book woofwoof he was an illegal immigrant into the U.S. via Mexico first and then he started grooming dogs in San Francisco. I don´t think he was grooming in Mexico......and then when he found he had a "way" with dogs he started training all on his own. Once he got clients like Will & Jada Smith I think they helped him so that he wouldn´t get deported out of the country. If it weren´t for becoming famous I think he would have been sent back to Mexico.

I don´t agree with alot of his methods but I think he´s personable and enjoy watching his show sometimes just to see the dogs Not the training stuff......

I think he´s blown way out of proportion by some people and they think he´s some kind of God, but to each their own. People have to live their own lives and make their own decisions for their own dogs......

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